Recent comments

Denverites Protest Israel's Bombardment and Invasion of Gaza   6 years 43 weeks ago

while i agree with others that you're post is totally racist, i think your general rhetorical point, whether i agree with your overall positionality on the matter or not, is that we must be clear what we are supporting, and must not wash over the authoritarian, patriarchal, and misogynist tendencies of others. to make a blanket statement regarding Palestinian or Arabic people would be inaccurate and inappropriate, but it would be equally inappropriate to pretend that politicized Islamic extremism is any less fucked up than, say, the authoritarian, patriarchal, and misogynist tendencies of politicized Christian or Zionist extremism (or Hindu or Buddhist extremism, for that matter [yes, that's right, there are Buddhist extremists]).

it is important to be clear on what we support, and what we oppose. standing in solidarity with the people of Gaza who are being brutalized at the hands of Israel does not mean supporting extremist Palestinian militants who opportunisticly seize upon crisis to gain political power (many of whom are also directly involved with Mossad and Israel in black ops). it is also important to remember that not all Palestinian militants are extremists and this stereotype is used to delegitimize and marginalize non-extremist and even secular resistance. the same goes for Israel. there are many dissenting Israeli citizens who oppose the actions of their state.

i am reminded of something that came out last year called "Neither One State Nor Two States But No States":

Statement from the Manchester branch of the Anarchist Federation on the Gaza war

One thing is absolutely clear about the current situation in Gaza: the Israeli state is committing atrocities which must end immediately. With hundreds dead and thousands wounded, it has become increasingly clear that the aim of the military operation, which has been in the planning stages since the signing of the original ceasefire in June, is to break Hamas completely. The attack follows the crippling blockade throughout the supposed ‘ceasefire’, which has destroyed the livelihoods of Gazans, ruined the civilian infrastructure and created a humanitarian disaster which anyone with an ounce of humanity would seek an end to.

But that’s not all there is to say about the situation. On both sides of the conflict, the idea that opposing Israel has to mean supporting Hamas and its ‘resistance’ movement is worryingly common. We totally reject this argument.

Just like any other set of rulers, Hamas, like all the other major Palestinian factions, are happy and willing to sacrifice ordinary Palestinians to increase their power. This isn’t some vague theoretical point — until recently most deaths in Gaza were a result of fighting between Hamas and Fatah. The ‘choices’ offered to ordinary Palestinian people are between Islamist gangsters (Hamas, Islamic Jihad) or nationalist gangsters (Fatah, Al-Aqsa Martyrs brigades). These groups have shown their willingness to attack working class attempts to improve their living conditions, seizing union offices, kidnapping prominent trade unionists, and breaking strikes. One spectacular example is the destruction of Palestine Workers Radio by Al-Aqsa Martyrs brigades, for “stoking internal conflicts”. Clearly, a “free Palestine” under the control of any of these groups would be nothing of the sort.

As anarchists, we are internationalists, opposing the idea that the rulers and ruled within a nation have any interests in common. Therefore, anarchists reject Palestinian nationalism just as we reject Israeli nationalism (Zionism). Ethnicity does not grant “rights” to lands, which require the state to enforce them. People, on the other hand, have a right to having their human needs met, and should be able to live where they choose, freely.

Therefore, against the divisions and false choices set up by nationalism, we fully support the ordinary inhabitants of Gaza and Israel against state warfare — not because of their nationality, ethnicity, or religion, but simply because they’re real living, feeling, thinking, suffering, struggling human beings. And this support has to mean total hostility to all those who would oppress and exploit them — the Israeli state and the Western governments and corporations that supply it with weapons, but also any other capitalist factions who seek to use ordinary working-class Palestinians as pawns in their power struggles. The only real solution is one which is collective, based on the fact that as a class, globally, we ultimately have nothing but our ability to work for others, and everything to gain in ending this system — capitalism — and the states and wars it needs.

That this seems like a “difficult” solution does not stop it from being the right one. Any “solution” that means endless cycles of conflict, which is what nationalism represents, is no solution at all. And if that is the case, the fact that it is “easier” is irrelevant. There are sectors of Palestinian society which are not dominated by the would-be rulers — protests organised by village committees in the West Bank for instance. These deserve our support. As do those in Israel who refuse to fight, and who resist the war. But not the groups who call on Palestinians to be slaughtered on their behalf by one of the most advanced armies in the world, and who wilfully attack civilians on the other side of the border.


Denverites Protest Israel's Bombardment and Invasion of Gaza   6 years 43 weeks ago

I have read your letter on why you voted for H.Res. 867, and I find it both troubling and evasive. I have been an admirer of yours in the past, but that admiration has dissipated. I absolutely cannot understand why challenging and investigating war crimes should "drive people away from resuming negotiations toward a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict." What people? And what will be the basis of those negotiations wireless internet providers? You say the death of innocent civilians must end. How can that happen if those deaths--many of them paid for by our tax dollars--are papered over and ignored by our representatives in Congress? You say you deplore inflammatory rhetoric. Have you read the Goldstone Report? It is a long, sober, and meticulously-researched document by one of the world's most eminent jurists. It contains no rhetoric of any sort. Truthfully, it seems to me that you know very little about this issue. That being the case you should not, in good conscience, have voted at all. I live in Boulder and I understand that my opinion need not concern you. (Jared Polis's response to my questions was to e-mail me the Abraham Foxman ADL handout that apparently served as the only research he bothered to do). Still,you must be aware that after the bloody and terrible events of the previous century, the world's most honorable thinkers--with the United States in the forefront--concluded that humanity's last, best hope was international law. To deliberately weaken that law as you all have done is to invite further bloodshed and chaos.

broken glass with other dreams   6 years 43 weeks ago

and that's probably why they asked how to make it happen.

Demonstration and March in Solidarity with Gaza   6 years 43 weeks ago

Join us in solidarity with the


We have joined forces with the Social Action Council of the

First Unitarian Church
1400 Lafayette Street, Denver
Thursday, December 31
6:00 pm - Indoor Vigil

Presenter: Gary Anderson, a civil engineer, who has lived and worked in Palestine and other Arab countries for some years. He was involved in water issues in Palestine for much of 2002-2007 and from late 2005 to early 2007 lived in Ramallah, managing a water distribution project in Gaza.

There will be music and refreshments followed by a

March down Colfax Avenue


Co-sponsors: Friends of Sabeel-Colorado; Aware!; Colorado Palestinian Community Network; Colorado Jews For a Just Peace; and others

Please Bring Flashlights, Glow Sticks, and Signs

For additional information and advocacy resources on the Palestinian- Israeli conflict:

"Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land" Watch it online:

Sign up to receive weekly reports of your representatives' votes in Congress:

broken glass with other dreams   6 years 43 weeks ago

At what point are existing social relations altered on any level besides subreformism and lifestylism?

broken glass with other dreams   6 years 43 weeks ago

We are anarcho-syndicalists on the shop floor, green anarchists in the woods, social anarchists in our communities, individualists when you catch us alone, anarcho-communists when there's something to share, insurrectionists when we strike a blow.

broken glass with other dreams   6 years 43 weeks ago

 all this revolutionary/insurrectionary theory is just a bunch of fucking clicky ass in-fighting i mean the goverment doesnt even have to worry about a revolution because we are all to busy bickering over which theory will bring the masses in to revolt whether it be anarchism, maoism, communism, socialism, or what ever the fuck else you wanna identify as

i agree with tillitbreaks about needing everything for revolution from the stone chucking mob of angry youth to crowds of non-violent protesters whatever it takes to support your struggles get those yappy liberals to donate to your cause or start those stupid ass petitions whatever it takes to build, start, and spread the fire because in "theory" it will all burn

one last thing actions like this maybe useless and make 'working-class' people disenchanted with your struggle but you also inspire stupid kids like me to stand up, take a chance and keep fighting so lottsa love to fort collins keep up the good work

also hearts to tillitbreaks and everybody else with the courage to do the best they can to smash capitalism and the state

in solidarity and struggle + love from junktown 

Secret ICE Detention Centers in Grand Junction and Elsewhere in Colorado   6 years 43 weeks ago

 The GJ location has got a large unmarked building with a gated parking lot, four white vans with US government plates.  There is no 'yard' so anyone detained there would have no chance for fresh air. There was no fence or barbwire. Very low key. Few cameras. Minus the federal vans it would be impossible to notice.

broken glass with other dreams   6 years 44 weeks ago

The point is revolution, not "acts of rebellion." It seems really childish to adulate minor acts without incorporating them into a realistic strategy and analysis for revolution (the kind that requires an actual revolution). In the end, the empty insurrectionist blathering sounds little different than the stale "working class" dogma.

A Cry For Help from Federal Supermax   6 years 44 weeks ago

 Any new info?

broken glass with other dreams   6 years 44 weeks ago

Third issue is due January 1st but probably will be pushed back a month.

Your textual, (porno)graphic, and/or sexual submission can be made electronically to dragn[at]riseup[dot]net.  You know what we want.

Also hit us up if you just wanna cyber...    ; )

broken glass with other dreams   6 years 44 weeks ago

til it breaks offers so much solid analysis I can't believe it. When does issue three come out? Do you need help? : )

Ariel Attack Still Livin' (at) Large   6 years 44 weeks ago

to ariel attack!

seriously one of the coolest people in Denver. ariel is AWESOME.

broken glass with other dreams   6 years 44 weeks ago

Guess I'll be the first one

Ariel Attack Still Livin' (at) Large   6 years 44 weeks ago

Yay! Glad to hear the deal worked out so well for you!!!! Ariel you're a fucking OG.

broken glass with other dreams   6 years 44 weeks ago

the wellspring of insurrection is either in the points of rupture present in society--the discontent of the tenant, clashes between police and people, struggles of the workplace, the rebellion of students--where anarchists can intervene through non-vanguardist methods to deepen and spread rupture while rejecting forces of mediation and recuperation, or else in our own daily refusal of the social order and what it foists onto us--namely boredom, alienation from our neighbors, the feeling we are spectators of our own lives, so on.  at least, those are the theories that have been gifted to us, and we're not ready to burn them just yet.

"We want smashed prisons and the destruction of capitalism, not just windows--the question is how do we create moments in which insurrection is possible?"

either insurrection is possible in every moment, and is primarily a question of our consciousness and actions, or else it is impossible for us--as pro-revolutionaries isolated from the masses--to create moments of insurrection, and we must instead locate the moments that have been created by the inherent conflicts present in society, and then position ourselves in these territories for the purpose of attack.  again, these are some positions that insurrectionary theory has taken.

it is crucial that insurrection consists of actions which tend toward generalization rather than isolation.  the invisible committee argued that insurrection spreads by resonance rather than contamination; how well, then, does the sight of a boarded-up window at the bank resonate?  how about the witnessing of a bank robbery?

it is interesting that in the week that the abovementioned bank was attacked, no less than fourteen banks were robbed in Denver.  it seems there is something almost generalized about attacks on banks.  neither expropriations nor attacks, however, not even robberies in which the money is burned, will destroy capitalism just like that.  if we were asked what tactic is best, our favorite might be the method depicted in Lil Wayne's video Got Money--a bank robbery followed by the willy-nilly gifting of the money onto the asphalt.  but really, we would have no strong preference except that they be generalized. 

any of these actions, carried out broadly, are destructive of capitalism, at least, that's what we think.  better yet, all of these and other rebellions including debtors' strikes, workplace occupations, and gardens, if generalized, would destroy capitalism.  cool.

but the logic of generalization, if taken too far, leads toward some of the comments above.  one might suggest we need open attacks rather than clandestine ones, or "the working class revolution" rather than attacks on banks (which are not valid targets because working class people work there[??!?]), to be doing it Correctly.  we want open revolt and secret destruction, working-class power through petty vandalism, and whatever else is fun and sexy.

it is far too easy to criticize others, and the One True Revolutionaries just want us to rally behind their banner, their ideology, their way of doing things, what they used to call their Party.

"In an excessive perspective of liberation there are no such things as superior forms of struggle.  Revolt needs everything: papers and books, arms and explosives, reflection and swearing, poison, daggers and arson.  The only interesting question is how to combine them."  -- At Daggers Drawn

so, let us take these contradictions--intervention versus refusal, generalization versus clandestinity, revolution versus vandalism--and not let ourselves become bound up trying to resolve them, but let their tensions act as a springboard into joyful insurrection.

mad love to all who attack capitalism, however incompletely, and desire to destroy all government rather than "change" (=steer) its fatal course,

crazy love to the 3 or 5 people who read this shit,

 - Spontaneity

broken glass with other dreams   6 years 44 weeks ago

^ crazy wingnut alert.

broken glass with other dreams   6 years 44 weeks ago

This is absolute stupidity.  This is not the way forward to change the course of government.  This is petty vandalism and the people that typically work at the Wells Fargo branches are of the working class.  The people that are our brothers and sisters.  This behaviour not only scares the people you should be protecting, but it also creates negative press for your cause.   The way forward is the through the working class revolution, not immature college pranks.     

Defeat U.S. War on Afghanistan and Iraq!   6 years 44 weeks ago

and the Antinational Brigades!

Grassroots Homeless Organization to March for No More Deaths on the Streets of GJ   6 years 44 weeks ago

 More then 50 people took the streets of Grand Junction to demand No More Deaths on the streets of Grand Junction.  Many more participated in the memorial service, in Hawthorn Park at the conclusion of the March.  Will update with photos.

See you in the streets


broken glass with other dreams   6 years 44 weeks ago

Yes, there is only ONE way.  You must be open.

Never clandestine.  Or a creative combination of the two.

One-true-wayism works best for insurrectionists raised in a monotheistic, totalitarian culture.  The one-true-way will set us free.




broken glass with other dreams   6 years 44 weeks ago

our revolt must be open.

clandestine actions at night do nothing to de-legitimize capitalism and the state. it just evades them to attack.

much better is to organize open revolt, open de-legitimizing actions of the state/capitalism (like building occupations, rent strike, etc...) or to organize a street party against banks where the windows are smashed during collective action and cheered by those around. when you smash the windows and hundreds do not stop you, that de-legitimizes the state's violence and capitalism.

smashing a window at night is easier, but it is MUCH better to stir open disregard for the laws of capitalism the state enforces.

organize, occupy, resist.

broken glass with other dreams   6 years 44 weeks ago

Federal taxpayer bailout received: $36.9 billion
Profits for the years 1998-2008*: $95.8 billion
Profits for the first half of 2009: $6.22 billion
Change in bank account fees (2003-08): +35.1%
Bank fees for first half of 2009: $2.84 billion
Credit card income for first half of 2009: $1.78 billion
Percent of first half 2009 profit from fees & credit cards: 74%
Median Wells Fargo bank teller wage: $10.28/hour or $21,392 annually
2007-08 Chairman Richard Kovacevich pay: $26.6 million (622 times median
teller wage)
2008 bonus pool†: $978 million‡
First half 2009 bonus and compensation pool: $13.2 billion
Cash bonuses (top 5 execs) last 10 years§: $254.9 million
Effective tax rate in 2008: 18.5%
Offshore subsidiaries in tax havens**: 77
Lobbying fees in 9 months after bailout: $2.5 million
Campaign contributions in 2008 federal elections:†† $4.7 million

Role in subprime crisis:
• Wells was a significant player in the subprime crisis. In 2006, the last year before the
subprime bubble started to burst, Wells originated or co-issued $74.2 billion worth of
subprime loans, making it one of the top subprime lenders in the country.
• As recently as September 2008, Wells still held $48 billion worth of subprime mortgages in
its servicing portfolio, making it the nation’s sixth largest subprime servicer.
Bailing out the Bank:
• Wells Fargo put taxpayers on the hook for up to $36.9 billion in bailout funds and programs
plus an unknown amount from the Federal Reserve’s $8 trillion in emergency programs.
This money was supposed to help the banks get the economy going again. But little of this
money has gone to relieve struggling homeowners and increase the flow of credit to small
• Despite its large portfolio of at risk mortgages, Wells Fargo has started trial mortgage
modifications for only 11% of its 292,515 borrowers who are eligible for the Obama
Administration’s Making Home Affordable Program (and are at least 60 days past due). At
Wachovia, which Wells Fargo acquired in 2008, the number is even lower, 2% of 74,231
eligible borrowers.
* Includes profits for Wells Fargo for the last ten years ($57.1 billion) and Wachovia for the last nine years ($38.7 billion).

• Wells Fargo‡‡ lending to American small business fell by $233 million (a 23.9% drop)
through the SBA’s flagship 7a program, from 2008 to 2009 (measuring each only for the first
11 months of each fiscal year).
Lavish spending:
• Amidst popular outcry, Wells was forced to cancel a Las Vegas junket in February that
included 12 nights at the Wynn and Encore Las Vegas (two of the most expensive hotelcasinos
on the Strip) for its top mortgage officers.
• In response, the bank took out full page ads in the New York Times, Washington Post, USA
Today, and Wall Street Journal defending its right to hold such events. Full page ads in these
papers can range from $180,000 to $230,000. A company spokeswoman defended the ads,
saying “we felt this was a way we could publicly acknowledge [Wells employees’]
• Wells Fargo is paying $40 million for naming rights to the Wachovia Center in Philadelphia,
the home of the Philadelphia 76ers and the Philadelphia Flyers. Wells Fargo also has its
name on the Wells Fargo Arena in Des Moines and Arizona State University’s Wells Fargo
Arena in Tempe.
• According to residents of an upscale Malibu neighborhood, a Wells Fargo executive took
over a $12-million, beachfront home that the bank had recently foreclosed on, using it as a
weekend residence and for extravagant parties.
Back to Bonuses as Usual:
• Wells Chairman Richard Kovacevich was reluctant to partake in Paulson’s program to take
equity stakes in banks, which nominally placed limits on executive compensation.
• Unlike his colleagues at the other leading banks, Wells Fargo’s John Stumpf was the only
CEO of a leading bank who had not voluntarily agreed to forego his 2008 bonus before the
February 11th, TARP CEO Congressional hearing. His compensation for 2008 was valued at
$13.8 million.
• In 2008, Wells Fargo§§ earned only $2.7 billion in income; and yet it awarded its employees
$977.5 million in bonuses, and spent almost $13 billion on total compensation.
• In August 2009, Wells Fargo’s board authorized increases in annual base salaries for Stumpf
and three other senior executives, a practice already implemented by its peers to get around
limits on bonuses for TARP recipients.
• Wells Fargo and Wachovia have made themselves the beneficiaries on $17.8 billion in life
insurance policies for its employees and former employees. The bank gets annual tax-free
income from investments in the insurance contracts, helping to offset executive
compensation expenses, and then receives another tax-free windfall when employees and
former employees die
Unreasonable bank fees
• When often unknowing customers made charges or withdrawals that overdrew an account
Wells Fargo charged them up to $35 per transaction. As a result, if a customer incurs a $100
overdraft that remains unpaid for seven days, the APR on what amounts to a consumer loan
would be a staggering 1,820%. Also Wells reorders transactions in such a way to maximize fee revenue. Now, even as its competitors are overhauling their overdraft policies in advance
of regulatory reform, Wells refuses to follow suit. With federal legislation to curb overdraft
fees imminent, Wells Fargo recently announced that it will not charge customers who exceed
their funds by $5 or less, but anything above is still subject to existing terms.
• Wachovia, which is now owned by Wells Fargo, is already facing overdraft fee litigation by
irate customers in federal courts in Atlanta, Miami, Camden, N.J., and in the northern district
of California -- all of which are seeking class action status.
Reverse redlining
• A recent report by the Center for American Progress (CAP) examining bank lending practices
in 2006 (the height of the housing boom) reveals that Wells Fargo was much more likely to
steer Black and Latino applicants than White applicants into higher priced subprime
mortgages: 47.3% of Black borrowers and 26.0% of Latino borrowers compared to 16.7% of
White borrowers.
• The CAP report also shows the racial disparity was even greater for high-income borrowers:
26.2% of Black high-income borrowers and 16.3% of Latino high-income borrowers
compared to 6.4% of White borrowers. The extent of the disparity and its continuation among
higher income earners raise questions about discrimination in the bank’s lending practices.
This practice is known as reverse redlining and is prohibited under the federal Fair Housing
• The NAACP brought a lawsuit against Wells Fargo and HSBC in March 2009, alleging
“systemic, institutionalized racism” in their subprime lending. According to the lawsuit, the
banks gave subprime rates to African-American borrowers even though they qualified for
better rates, and they gave better rates to white borrowers with similar credit histories. Wells
denies these allegations.
• In January 2008, the City of Baltimore filed a lawsuit against Wells Fargo, alleging that the
bank “targeted black neighborhoods for high-risk and unfairly priced loans,” according to the
Associated Press, leading to a concentration of Wells Fargo foreclosures in predominantly
African-American communities. In the spring of 2009, two former Wells Fargo employees
submitted affidavits detailing the operations and incentives in the practice, which employees
referred to as “ghetto loans.”
• In July 2009, the Illinois Attorney General filed another lawsuit accusing Wells Fargo of
discriminatory and deceptive mortgage lending practices. The lawsuit alleges not only that
race was a criteria for loan type, but also that Wells Fargo misrepresented the terms of the
loans and refinancing.
• In Los Angeles, a Superior Court judge recently certified a class action lawsuit alleging that
the Wells Fargo area manager denied minority applicants access to a special loan discount
program, costing them up to $10,000 in lost savings per loan.
Predatory lending
• Wells Fargo is a major funder of the payday loan industry that preys on cash strapped
working families by providing short term loans with annual interest rates typically around
400%. Wells Fargo provides credit to six of the seven largest publicly traded payday lenders;
this credit is indispensable for the payday lenders’ operations.
• Wells Fargo also functions as a payday lender itself, despite the fact that regulatory agencies
have ruled against various forms of bank involvement in the industry on several occasions.
Since 1994, Wells Fargo has offered direct deposit cash advances that now have annualized
interest rates of 120%.
• Wells Fargo also helps to fund the merchant cash advance industry. Merchant cash advances
are a high cost form of financing to small businesses that is increasingly filling the credit
void at a time when banks have dramatically reduced their lending to small businesses.
Lobbying against workers and consumer interests
• Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf sits on the board of directors and executive committee of the
Financial Services Roundtable, which lobbied against the Employee Free Choice Act in every
quarter of 2008 and has made joining with the U.S. Chamber of Commerce to defeat it a top
priority for 2009. The measure would make it easier for workers to bargain with employers for
better wages, benefits, and working conditions by ensuring that they can exercise a free choice
to join together in a union without management interference or intimidation.
• According to data obtained on Open Secrets, during 2008 and the first half of 2009, together
Wells Fargo and Wachovia spent $5.6 million on lobbying, of which $2.5 million was spent
during the three quarters since the bailout.
• Over the past two years the bank focused its lobbying on consumer issues like the mortgage
reform, foreclosure prevention, and anti-predatory lending (H.R. 3915, H.R.787, H.R. 3609,
S. 2636), as well as consumer overdraft and credit card protections (H.R. 946, H.R. 5546,
H.R. 1456, H.R.627, H.R.991, H.R.172.

† Does not include bonuses at Wachovia that was taken over by Wells Fargo.
‡ Before Wachovia merger
§ Includes bonuses at Wells Fargo for the last ten years ($156.8 million) and Wachovia for the last nine years ($98.1 million).
** Includes 18 Wells Fargo subsidiaries and 59 Wachovia subsidiaries.
†† Includes campaign contributions made by both Wells Fargo and by Wachovia during the 2008 federal election cycle. In both
cases, the contributions include those made by the banks’ political action committee and those made by their employees. Data
obtained from Open Secrets

‡‡ Combines lending by Wells Fargo and Wachovia.
§§ Before Wachovia merger

Write a birthday letter to Noah Rockslide   6 years 44 weeks ago

If you send mail to Copenhagen ABC the postage will be 98 cents.

You can also write emails to and they will get to him that way!

broken glass with other dreams   6 years 44 weeks ago

in the spirit of "Bankrupt the System, Exploit The University", what do you think about taking them for every penny they'll willingly grant us, only to use the $ against them to fund the insurrection?

in other words, what do you think about a "movement", or rather an insurrectional tendency, for revolutionaries to bankrupt the system by extracting as much free money as possible without the intent to ever repay it?

Max out your credit cards, max out your student loans. Bankrupt the system that is bankrupting us!
The government has stolen generations of wealth from our parents, grandparents, and colonized people from around the world. Shouldn't we take back as much as they will "loan" us, and use it to destroy this system before it can steal even more?
Don't worry about credit scores or debt collectors. The liberation you can find in one another can destroy those things. We only need the time and space to make that liberation real. This money can help us get there together. And if it doesn't, who cares if you have a good credit score? YOUR LIFE IS GOING TO SUCK.
Everything for everyone! Communize the government's money! Destroy it's social sorting processes! Collapse privileges and create solidarities.


or would this still just help a bank like WF 'cause they still make money come out of thin air by lending regardless or whether or not it's ever paid back by the person who it was loaned to?